National Public Radio host Mary Louise Kelly held her own in a contentious interview Friday with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. The secretary tried his best to bluster and even threaten Kelly after she delved into sensitive issues surrounding Ukraine and President Donald Trump’s impeachment. He’s a physically intimidating, big guy and very smart, with a quick command of facts to fend off just about any challenger.
But Kelly clearly got under his skin — to the point that, in retaliation, the department banned veteran NPR diplomatic correspondent Michele Kelemen from accompanying Pompeo this week on a trip that, ironically, includes the very country he tried so strenuously to avoid discussing: Ukraine.
Good for Kelly and her aggressive journalism at a time when the Trump administration is working overtime to squirm away from accountability about issues that have culminated in Trump’s Senate impeachment trial. Top officials have good reason to avoid discussing Ukraine because their answers tend to get them into deeper trouble.
When Trump’s chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, tried his hand at answering reporters’ questions in October, Mulvaney blurted out an admission that the administration withheld $391 million in military aid to Ukraine to pressure its leader into announcing an investigation of Trump’s likely 2020 election opponent, former Vice President Joe Biden. “That’s why we held up the money,” Mulvaney said. He confirmed the existence of a quid pro quo, then offered brashly, “Get over it.”
Top administration officials have since stayed away from the subject. But Pompeo agreed to a sit-down interview with NPR even though Kelly informed his team in advance that her questions would include Ukraine. Pompeo bristled when Kelly asked whether he owed an apology to Marie Yovanovitch, the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine who was ousted after raising questions about the very political interventions by Trump’s representatives that ultimately led to his impeachment.
“You know, I agreed to come on your show today to talk about Iran,” Pompeo told Kelly. When he tried to sidestep the Ukraine subject, she returned to it — again and again and again. She pressed to know if he had defended Yovanovitch, who was targeted with a series of unfair and unfounded attacks. He responded, “I’ve defended every single person on this team. I’ve done what’s right for every single person on this team.”
Kelly kept pressing for details of when, exactly, he had defended Yovanovitch. Pompeo’s aide shut the interview down. He later summoned Kelly to a private office space where he used expletives and demanded, “Do you think Americans care about Ukraine?” He then ordered an aide to find an unmarked world map and challenged Kelly to find Ukraine on the map. She did immediately.
Would Pompeo dare to perform the same test on his boss? Doubtful. Even more doubtful would be Trump’s chances of passing it.
— St. Louis Post-Dispatch
