WASHINGTON Kurt Volker knew by early July that he and other Trump administration officials had a problem. More precisely, he realized theres a Giuliani problem here.
That is what the former U.S. special envoy to Ukraine told the House panels leading Democrats impeachment inquiry just weeks ago, referring to Rudolph Giuliani, President Donald Trumps personal attorney. The former U.S. attorney and New York City mayor is at the forefront of testimony that Volker and Gordon Sondland, U.S. ambassador to the European Union, gave the House committees. Giulianis name comes up over and over, with both officials raising concerns about his role in American diplomacy despite having no government position.
Transcripts of their hours before lawmakers also reveal officials concern about a confusion about U.S. policy toward Ukraine, senior administration officials competing against one another and how Giulianis sway with Trump pushed his boss into a predicament that could make him just the third sitting president to be impeached by the House.
Volker told lawmakers that earlier this year he could see we have a problem in the form of a negative feed about Ukraine and its new president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, which he had concluded was coming through Giuliani.
That feed led directly to Trump. It was, he said under oath, reinforcing a negative perception of the president, referring to Zelenskiy.
Volker testified that he tried setting up more regular communications with Giuliani in an attempt to get the administrations Ukraine policy in the box. But, he and Sondland made clear to the committees, they failed to do so. The two, and others, were unable to overcome what Volker described as Trumps long-standing skepticism of Ukraine.
Asked by Foreign Affairs Republican Rep. Scott Perry of Pennsylvania if that skepticism existed before Giuliani might have imparted some of his opinions on Trump, Volker replied: Well, what I can say is that when I briefed the President and then participated in his meeting with (former Ukraine) President Poroshenko in September 2017, it was already clear then that he had a very skeptical view of Ukraine.
The testimony shows just how weary U.S. diplomats were of Giuliani and how they treated him like something of a pariah. To that end, Volker let the panels know he met Mr. Giuliani in person only once, at a reception at which I briefly shook his hand in 2015, and only learned Trump wanted Ukraine matters to flow through his personal lawyer in May, and then only had two or three telephone conversations with him after that.
When Rep. Lee Zeldin, R-N.Y., asked Sondland if it is a reasonable position for any sitting president of the United States to look into what he allegedly thought were legitimate acts of corruption by former Vice President Joe Biden and son Hunter Biden in Ukraine, Sondland resisted taking a position. But he notably did not endorse Giulianis involvement.
I cant express an opinion on that. I dont know legally if the president has the right to do that. Again, Im not a lawyer. I think thats really between the president and his, you know, the electorate, as to whether the voters think that thats proper or not.
So concerned was Volker about Giuliani having Trumps attention about Ukraine that he once pulled aside Zelenskiy and a top aide during a reception to explain what he once called the Giuliani factor.
I explained that I thought … there is a negative narrative about Ukraine that is counteracting all the good things that he is doing, and that we are officially communicating back, and that this is being amplified by Rudy Giuliani, he said under oath.
Ultimately, however, Volker and Sondland decided to play ball with the presidents arrangement but both claim to have steered clear of Rudy.
West Wing war
The transcripts are merely the latest descriptions of a West Wing and administration in which senior officials are secretive with one another about their true policy views and jockeying for position to get theirs into Trumps mind as key decisions are nearing deadlines.
Sondland described harmony between U.S. diplomats in Ukraine and Brussels and the White House National Security Council about how they were engaging Zelenskiy, who ran as an anti-corruption reformer. It was only months after those efforts began that Sondland realized there was a problem.
